Togher Historical Association: Blog Meetings

Showing posts with label Blog Meetings. Show all posts

Sunday, October 27, 2019

Joe Murphy Public Meeting - Togher Community Centre

Proclamation on display at Togher Community Centre

Ballyphehane 1916 Stand

at Togher Community Centre

On Monday 21st October 2019 at 7.30 p.m. a public meeting was jointly organised by the Togher Community Association and the Ballyphehane 1916 Committee at the Togher Community Centre. The Togher Historical Association was invited to attend and was represented by Billy O'Brien and Kathleen O'Keeffe. The purpose of the meeting was to accept proposals from the public on the following years Centenary celebrations to include the Volunteers who have roads named after them but to centre largely on Joe Murphy. It should be noted that 3 of the Volunteers : Charles Daly , Patrick O'Donoghue and Patrick Trahy are buried in the Republican Plot in St. Finbarr's cemetery with Michael Fitzgerald being buried in Fermoy , Co. Cork.

14 Lough View , former home of Charles Daly

Charles Daly alone can be claimed as a local man having lived in 14 Lough View , Croghtamore a.k.a. The Lough shown in photo above ( Togher was part of the Lough Parish at the time of naming ). He is one of only two locals to have a road named in their honour in the general vicinity , the other of course being Joe Murphy who has a road in Ballyphehane.

Copy of Flyer at Meeting

Copy of Programme Page 01

Copy of Programme Page 02

The hall was soon filled to capacity with many Councillors and TD's both serving and retired attending. Representatives of the Cork New York Association were also present. Kieran O'Connell hosted the event with Ciara Murphy taking the minutes of the meeting. Pat Smith , Chairman of the Community Association expertly guided events along over the course of 2 hours. Special Guest speaker Gabriel Doherty from U.C.C. gave the opening address encouraging local people to participate in any celebrations and also offering archival assistance for the future.

Pat Smith Chairman Togher Community Assoc.

Gabriel Doherty opening address

John Murphy next entertained those present with a beautiful rendition of his self penned ballad - The Boy From Pouladuff. It ended in a fantastic round of applause from all those present.

John Murphy singing The Boy From Pouladuff

Billy O'Brien gave a brief introduction to the audience about the work of the Togher Historical Association and its Facebook group and blog. Also included was a summary explanation of the Black & Tans in Togher and the Volunteers who engaged them. Next up was Shirley Kelleher who spoke about her Great Uncle Joe Murphy and the family connection. Also mention was made of the successful campaign to claim the War Of Independence Medal after 99 years. Kieran O'Connell who hosted the event throughout the night gave an introduction to the Volunteers who have roads named after them in Togher. A question and answer session was then instigated and ideas and queries were made and asked of the speakers. The Blog met a few members of the Facebook group including Pat Manning and Adam Duggan , Great Grandson of David Allen who participated in the Tan War and founded the Togher Development Association in 1946 , precursor of the Togher Community Association. An exciting proposal was made which would see the Chetwynd Viaduct become part of a greenway walk with suggestions that funding was available for same. The blog would like to thank all who attended and a special mention to Kieran O'Connell and Pat Smith for their work on the night.

Kieran Edwards & John Dennehy

Billy O'Brien T.H.A., Kieran Edwards ,
John Dennehy & Kathleen O'Keeffe T.H.A.

Billy O'Brien T.H.A , Shirley Kelleher
& Kathleen O'Keeffe T.H.A.

Thursday, April 26, 2018

Togher Learning Neighborhood - 25th April 2018

Program of participants

at Togher Learning Neighbourhood

On Wednesday 25th April 2018 , Keiran O'Connell of Togher Tidy Towns hosted a Togher Learning Neighbourhood program in the Assembly Hall of Togher National School. A special invitation was extended to the Togher Historical Association which was represented by Kathleen O'Keeffe. Also present were representatives from Ballyphehane 1916 Group , Togher Music Project , Tidy Towns and Cork City Partnership. All had fantastic stands on display , most notably the Ballyphehane 1916 and Togher Historical Association.

John Dennehy addressing the hall

Cork City Partnership stand

Ballyphehane 1916 Group stand

Togher Tidy Towns stand

Togher Music Project stand

Kathleen had an amazing array of extremely rare photographs of Toghers past with the emphasis being placed on the old National School and its students throughout the years. Also present were two books penned by the late Tom O'Keeffe - Togher , A Brief History and Togher Past And Present. Various classes from the Boys and Girls Schools arrived during the morning to view the stands and ask questions.

Kathleen O'Keeffe

Togher Historical Assoc. stand

Kathleen related one girls query on Lehenagh House and when told that Father Matthew regularly stayed there with his Brother in the 19th Century , stated wide eyed - " So , that's why it's called Matthew's Hill! " A very enjoyable day was had by all and a great opportunity to educate Togher's youth about their amazing past. The blog would like to thank Keiran O'Connell for the invitation and the chance to showcase local history.

Sunday, July 27, 2014

Boundaries Debate - 13th July 2014

The Blog organised a very special and extremely important meeting for Sunday 13th July 2014. The topic was centred around a Boundaries Debate whose purpose it was to look at for perhaps the first time the area which could be considered de facto Togher. The following attended this historic event: Billy O'Brien , Eamonn Pearse , Mary O'Riordan , Pat O'Rourke , Ted O'Riordan , James O'Brien , Dan O'Riordan and newly elected Cllr Fergal Dennehy with Kathleen O'Keeffe. The forum began at approximately 2.00 p.m. with Billy O'Brien playing host to an eager audience. Though light hearted and casual , it quickly became apparent that the subject matter was a serious one.

Everything starts with a blank canvas

The Debate opened with the caveat that there are no official Suburbs in Cork City as such. What are perceived as such in the public consciousness are actually the Catholic Parishes established by the Bishop of Cork and it was these divisions that the Debate relied heavily on , though not exclusively. The main problem lay with the maxim that Togher along with all of the remaining " suburbs " exists only as a modern concept. To uncover the reality of the situation , history had to be called on and to this end , the vast assortment of boundaries which Togher has been included in down through the Centuries was examined in detail. This entailed a summary look at Religious Divisions , Geographical/Historical Divisions and Parliamentary /Political Divisions to name but a few.

Summary breakdown of the various regional

and historical divisions

Religious

Starting from the religious perspective , the Blog journeyed back in time to the first documented " Parish ". The old Civil Parish of St Finbarrs over time became broken down into smaller newer Catholic Parishes following Emancipation in the late 1820s. Thus St. Finbarrs South was born which metamorphosed into St. Finbarrs West in 1890 and eventually acquired the descriptive Lough title harking to the location of the Catholic Church which overlooked the titular lake. Togher like many other areas was part of the Lough Parish right up to 1977 when it finally acquired its own Parish status. It must be stated by the Blog that the conferring of R.C. Parish on a region only gives official R.C. Church approval as to the identity of a particular region which must not detract from its sense of place historically. This can be explained by the simple fact that all of Togher was originally inside the boundaries of the old Lough Parish while still retaining its own identity. In fact to date pockets of North Togher still remain within the Lough Parish. This also highlighted the realisation that some Estates would inadvertently be excluded from the R.C. Parish Boundary established back in the 1970s. It also threw up the conundrum of certain parts of Togher being in separate Parishes while having a Togher address and the equally bizarre reality of still other areas lying inside Togher Parish while having a different address which was dubious at best. The main problem stems from the fact that there are no official online maps with boundaries available with Church sources only indicating broad areas. The Blog noted that this is something which must be investigated in more depth in the near future. As an important footnote it should also be remembered that other Religious Faiths have their own boundaries which may or may not include all or parts thereof of Togher.

This sectioned map illustrates the confusion

surrounding identification of regions

Geographical

Following on from the various Religious Divisions , the Blog next turned its attentions to the thorny subject of Address Snobbery and Address Robbery. The two are synonymous in that one cannot exist without the other. Whilst being mindful of peoples feelings and respectful of their opinions , one area in particular readily came up for discussion : Wilton. According to official S.M.A. records , large tracts of land were sold to a private development company called Wilton Securities who employed outside contractors to build a wide range of housing estates with a view to conferring the newly built up area with the descriptive title of Wilton. This was a classic case of Snobbery and Robbery being exercised with blatant disregard for local history or territory. Ultimately the fault must lie with the Developers and not the locals who bought properties there. The fact remains that all land south of the Glasheen River is actually Togher , both from a modern Religious perspective but more importantly from an Historical one. It is bizarre that they chose to rename parts of Togher in such a hostile fashion while at the same time hijacking a neighbouring Parishes title! Also , in a bizarre move, the Blog has learned that many Property Sellers are advertising single residences in Togher as being in Wilton.

Local residents in attendance

at the 1st Boundary Debate

Historical

Historically , Togher was first mentioned in the Down Survey of the 1640s , which listed an area , roughly approximating to the territories which the Liberty and Tramore Rivers passed through on its way to the Douglas Estuary , though perhaps not as far. This pocket of arable land immediately adjoining the body of water was denoted as " Toher Meddow ". In Medieval times before even that , it was simply referred to as Magh An Seanaidh or Maghy , essentially a Plain - or Plain of the Synod , indicating its close connection with the ruling Church of the day and hinting at the ownership of lands thereabouts by this Ecclesiastical Authority - e.g. : Killeenreendowney , Ardmanning and Kilmohanoch. Of course following the confiscation of whole Townlands by the English Crown in the late 17th Century , many of the old names were vanquished from living memory but somehow through it all , the name of Togher as a blanket identifier for an entire region still held sway , at least amongst the local indigenous Native Irish.

Togher in 1650 including its historic Townlands

Whilst it is factually correct to state that the name Togher officially came into usage to describe the hamlet at Togher Cross as far back as the 17th Century , it is also true that the title gained currency across a much larger tract of land before and since. So much so in fact , that it gained an almost familial association with many natives across 14 Townlands. The fact that the Tóchar after which it is named has never been conclusively identified and indeed has many locations atributed to it only adds to the mystery.

Political/Parliamentary

To further compound confusion it must also be noted that the Togher area in the 19th Century was included in the newly created Poor Law Union of Cork whilst still later on found itself in 3 separate District Electoral Divisions within that Union : Bishopstown , Iniskenny and Lehenagh. Let us also not forget that Togher was included in the South Liberties of the County of the City of Cork! And in the Barony of Cork to boot just to add to the confusion! Of course it could be argued that even prior to that it was part of the Kingdom of Desmond before the shiring of Ireland during Elizabethan times into full blown Counties. So briefly it can be seen , that historically Togher has been part of many Political Divisions.

D.E.D.s of Bishopstown , Iniskenny and Lehenagh

which included all or parts of Togher

The Blog wrapped up proceedings with a quick look at the present state of affairs vis-à-vis modern Electoral Divisions which illustrated perfectly a classic example of different layers of Division acting as a catalyst of confusion : Earlwood Estate. This particular region is part of the Lough Parish , has a Togher address and lies inside the Glasheen Ward! So it can be seen that historically , religiously , parliamentary and politically ; Togher has had quite a journey and it's a minor miracle it exists at all today. But the spirit and community of its past generations and the loyalty of its present occupiers serves to ensure its future status as an entity.

Modern Cork South West electoral divisions

Conclusion

The Blog concluded with an exhausting trawl around modern Satellite maps which were simultaneously superimposed over original Townland boundaries working in a clockwise direction from the Lough down to the Airport and back around the course of the Glasheen Stream along the South Ring Road and back up to the Lough. While it was agreed that many peripheral pockets of land needed further study and investigation , the general consensus was that the pieces of the jigsaw were starting to come together in earnest. A much deserved coffee break followed in the canteen where the conversation continued unabated and further projects were discussed for the immediate future. The Blog decided to revisit the Boundaries Debate again at a later date such was the enormity of the subject matter. In conclusion the actual physical boundary is still undecided but much of the work has been done and a full boundary which satisfies and includes all historical , political , geographical and religious borders will be published soon. In the meantime shown below is the area that was studied which may be subject to revision or indeed expansion.